"The Time I Went On A Lesbian Cruise And It Blew Up My Entire Life:
I didn’t expect that spending a week with a couple thousand lesbians on a cruise ship would push me to radically reconsider the future I’d planned for myself."
This is a long read, and good: relationship dynamics, the importance of cruises and camps in a world that lacks lesbian spaces, and a love story?!
@erinbee This was SO MUCH better than I expected it'd be.
@Cobalt Me too! I thought it would be far more travelogue-y, and I appreciated the discussion about how frustrating it is when spaces cater to transphobes through inaction.
@ghost_bird Sorry, it was a quote from a fellow cruiser:
Jamie said she was frustrated that Olivia’s website didn’t explicitly make clear that the trips welcome trans women; she had to call the offices to double-check. “My friends and I don’t wanna be here if this isn’t an actively trans-affirming space. I’m only coming if all my sisters can.”
@erinbee Whereas (if I was reading it right) it was one of their staff who actually said something transphobic. I’ll have to go back and finish the article properly though - I had to pause at that point.
@ghost_bird Yeah, the staff member was a total shit.
(I took Jamie's quote in a more general sense, for women-centered spaces overall - that not thinking to mention transwomen is forgetful at best, hostilely transphobic at worst, and being forgetful can still be passive transphobia. But, as a ciswoman I have the privilege to noodle over it like that.)
She says, "I actively choose to identify as a lesbian and a dyke, as well as a queer... Plus, most importantly (and most obviously), the word “lesbian” quite literally describes what I am: a woman who loves women in both a feminist way and a super-gay way." Which I've never really felt, since I'm bi, I always felt looked down on and like that was not my label (even now, married to a woman). I wonder if that's part of why I love the freedom of queerness.
@ghost_bird @erinbee I'm still a ways off from the end and will have to finish it later, but I am finding this very interesting! I am grateful for that weird insight, about my resistance to the lesbian-specific thing, that it goes both ways - I was not accepted and I was turned off by what I saw in that culture.
@erinbee @Eweish oooh, the plot thickens! Thanks! I'm reading the original but sort of half in hate-read mode. I'm so opposed to cruises (have only been on the receiving end of a community where they would invade periodically) and the ecological damage they cause. But I'm also deeply skeptical of lesbian-only gatherings. I grew up terrified I was going to have to be one of those women and I can not tell you how happy I am that queerness is so much better now than what I feared in the 80s.
@erinbee Wow, ew, "We don’t publicly, historically, say that we’re trans inclusive, but we’re always welcoming to our trans guests." That's like saying - well, we'll take their money but we won't do anything to make this an actual safe or inclusive space.
@erinbee @ghost_bird Just butting in here to say - wow, what a great quote and inspiration for action! I can't think of any women-only or LGBT event I've been part of that wasn't welcoming to trans women (and the few that didn't initially explicitly state that changed their language to do so) but I love the reminder to call or write and ask before giving money to a group (or ack! getting stuck in an event) that's transphobic. Let them know this is a deciding factor for this cis's participation.
@erinbee I am so glad I read this, thank you for sharing it
@erinbee it was better than i expected too!
there's definitely some discussion of trans exclusion that was... frustrating? for my partner to read & warrants a content warning. and the quick gloss over of cruise ethics & costs kinda irks me.
but it makes me want to be around a bunch of (inclusive) lesbians whenever i can.
also, this line made me laugh so much since @AudreyJune is a Pisces & I'm a Cap and it's true!
"She’s a true Pisces — romantic and dreamy and always processing. (My Capricorn groundedness makes us a good match, allegedly.)"
@Eweish @caprimoon @erinbee
I think if you are looking to write a piece that exposes the explicit bigotry of the cruise goers and the pandering done by the cruise towards their bigotry, then you absolutely do. I don’t think the language used in the article was nearly harsh enough in condemning the transphobia of the cruise, but I think it’s a whole other step to say that the author is especially transmisogynistic.
@Eweish @AudreyJune @caprimoon @erinbee so i haven’t finished this article yet but anyone notice the writer’s partner is conspicuously they-ed?also no mention of how sandy stone was chased out of being Olivia record’s sound engineer, and OMG LISA VOGEL AS A SPEAKER. Also the notable quotables attached:
It’s beyond problematic, it’s transphobic and transmisogynist. It is disappointing that this history isn’t something that you’ve encountered or, you know, actively sought out. I can’t imagine what your understanding of trans history in this country since 1978 looks like if you don’t know this stuff: it led to the limitation of trans rights at the federal level.
i have read and sought out trans history! i did a lot of that 10 years ago, before my partner even had an inkling she was trans but i had a hunch i'd need to know that stuff at some point in the future.
i don't have it all memorized. i'm sure i have not read everything i could or should.
@erinbee I just read that this morning, I found some of the asides interesting but kinda wish it had mentioned Sandy Stone.
It also made me pine for that sort of space and feeling comfortable with being there.
Overall a lovely read :)
This is terf-abiding crap. Please CW for transmisogyny.
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