Follow

"The Time I Went On A Lesbian Cruise And It Blew Up My Entire Life:
I didn’t expect that spending a week with a couple thousand lesbians on a cruise ship would push me to radically reconsider the future I’d planned for myself."

This is a long read, and good: relationship dynamics, the importance of cruises and camps in a world that lacks lesbian spaces, and a love story?!
buzzfeednews.com/article/shann

@erinbee This was SO MUCH better than I expected it'd be.

@Cobalt Me too! I thought it would be far more travelogue-y, and I appreciated the discussion about how frustrating it is when spaces cater to transphobes through inaction.

@erinbee @Cobalt I thought it went a bit beyond inaction myself, honestly. Or at least, I think it’s clear they understand the issue and have chosen not to act, which makes them culpable.

@ghost_bird @Cobalt Definitely in the case of the cruise company, yes. But IIRC, there's a line where the author also says it isn't enough to assume transwomen/non-binary people will feel welcome without explicitly saying so, because of generational transphobia. Let me see if I can find it.

@ghost_bird Sorry, it was a quote from a fellow cruiser:

Jamie said she was frustrated that Olivia’s website didn’t explicitly make clear that the trips welcome trans women; she had to call the offices to double-check. “My friends and I don’t wanna be here if this isn’t an actively trans-affirming space. I’m only coming if all my sisters can.”

@erinbee Whereas (if I was reading it right) it was one of their staff who actually said something transphobic. I’ll have to go back and finish the article properly though - I had to pause at that point.

@ghost_bird Yeah, the staff member was a total shit.

(I took Jamie's quote in a more general sense, for women-centered spaces overall - that not thinking to mention transwomen is forgetful at best, hostilely transphobic at worst, and being forgetful can still be passive transphobia. But, as a ciswoman I have the privilege to noodle over it like that.)

@compostablespork in conjunction, @Eweish is threading a strong rebuttal about the transmisogyny of Olivia Cruises and this article

radical.town/@Eweish/102299986

@erinbee @compostablespork

A rebuttal implies that there is an argument.

This is the moral equivalent of the mother jones puff piece on the dapper Nazi.

@Eweish @erinbee @compostablespork I’d call it what happens when a well-meaning cis lesbian gets love bombed by a cruise company. Plenty to think about in there, but it isn’t always what the author thinks she’s writing about.

TERFs 

TERFs 

TERFs 

TERFs 

TERFs 

TERFs 

@erinbee @ghost_bird

It’s trans women. Trans is the adjective, women is the noun. We’re not Klingons

@erinbee @ghost_bird Just butting in here to say - wow, what a great quote and inspiration for action! I can't think of any women-only or LGBT event I've been part of that wasn't welcoming to trans women (and the few that didn't initially explicitly state that changed their language to do so) but I love the reminder to call or write and ask before giving money to a group (or ack! getting stuck in an event) that's transphobic. Let them know this is a deciding factor for this cis's participation.

@erinbee @ghost_bird

And then a trans man thanked her, because trans men are allowed, because the company fundamentally sees them as women.

@erinbee @LexYeen this article has already referenced the only good lesbian bar in Manhattan so i'm SOLD

@erinbee it was better than i expected too!

there's definitely some discussion of trans exclusion that was... frustrating? for my partner to read & warrants a content warning. and the quick gloss over of cruise ethics & costs kinda irks me.

but it makes me want to be around a bunch of (inclusive) lesbians whenever i can.

also, this line made me laugh so much since @AudreyJune is a Pisces & I'm a Cap and it's true!
"She’s a true Pisces — romantic and dreamy and always processing. (My Capricorn groundedness makes us a good match, allegedly.)"

@caprimoon @erinbee @AudreyJune

Really really strange to me that you made it all the way through this piece when the fact of open bigotry is so explicit. :c

@AudreyJune @caprimoon @erinbee

BOTH. you don’t get onto a cruise ship full of people who are bigoted toward your friends, and you don’t write about how you fell in love with someone who is functionally just fine with that.

@Eweish @caprimoon @erinbee
I think if you are looking to write a piece that exposes the explicit bigotry of the cruise goers and the pandering done by the cruise towards their bigotry, then you absolutely do. I don’t think the language used in the article was nearly harsh enough in condemning the transphobia of the cruise, but I think it’s a whole other step to say that the author is especially transmisogynistic.

@Eweish @AudreyJune @caprimoon @erinbee so i haven’t finished this article yet but anyone notice the writer’s partner is conspicuously they-ed?also no mention of how sandy stone was chased out of being Olivia record’s sound engineer, and OMG LISA VOGEL AS A SPEAKER. Also the notable quotables attached:

@Cathymarinara @caprimoon @erinbee
I noticed the they really quickly. This is very much explained later on and the reason is the one you would hope for.

@Eweish @AudreyJune @caprimoon @erinbee i couldn’t finish it, tho I did skim through to the end- there’s a lot happening here & I don’t like most of it, tbh 🤷‍♀️ A reminder of why i’m Queer, a dyke, gay, etc but don’t use lesbian for myself

@Eweish @AudreyJune @erinbee

this is not a hill i want to die on. it's problematic, and not even close to a fave. i wasn't aware of the history of sandy stone & olivia records.

(i will stand by cap+pisces being a good match, though)

@caprimoon @AudreyJune @erinbee

It’s beyond problematic, it’s transphobic and transmisogynist. It is disappointing that this history isn’t something that you’ve encountered or, you know, actively sought out. I can’t imagine what your understanding of trans history in this country since 1978 looks like if you don’t know this stuff: it led to the limitation of trans rights at the federal level.

@AudreyJune @caprimoon

This, coming from the girl who’s telling me I don’t know transmisogyny when I see it.

@Eweish @AudreyJune @erinbee

i have read and sought out trans history! i did a lot of that 10 years ago, before my partner even had an inkling she was trans but i had a hunch i'd need to know that stuff at some point in the future.

i don't have it all memorized. i'm sure i have not read everything i could or should.

@erinbee I just read that this morning, I found some of the asides interesting but kinda wish it had mentioned Sandy Stone.

It also made me pine for that sort of space and feeling comfortable with being there.

Overall a lovely read :)

@erinbee

This is terf-abiding crap. Please CW for transmisogyny.

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Harpy Life

Welcome to Harpy Life. A femme friendly instance for all genders and identities.